Hey everybody!!!

Guess what? I have a litter of 5 newborns. They were found under a dock plate at work. The mother cat has not been found so I can only assume that she has either been killed or abandoned them. Their eyes are not open yet, but they do have their fur on them. So here is my book of questions.

At what age does a newborn cat urinate/defecate on its own without assistance from the mother?

What is your preference for using KMR? I use the powdered mix.

Regarding the bottle feeders, how do you prep the nipples? Some say to use the needle and others say cut the tip off with scissors. The needle is not seeming to work.

Can kittens that young go throughout the night without a feeding as long as they are fed immediately upon ua waking?

Some of the kittens do not want to suckle, it seems. In this case, is a mothering syringe the best bet? I have them available.

When using a syringe, how fast should the KMR be injected? I was thinking about 5 seconds per 1/10th of an ml.

I have some Bene-Bac tubes. what is the best way to administer that and when?

By my guesses, they are about 2 to 3 days old. After I get munchie syringe-fed (He is dying and I only wish to give him strength to walk as he no longer eats.), I will grab some photos and post them. From what I hear, it is not too hard to take care of newborns. Mom is retired and thus can feed them whenever they need it. So these beautiful little babies now have a fighting chance to live. So interesting...Munchie is dying and I have a chance now to give life.

Aw, poor babies!! I don't have any experience, but I did drop JJ a line to see if she wasn't too busy with work to stop by here and maybe give you pointers.

Good luck!!

Thanks, I appreciate it!!! :)

When I get the pix I have resized to forum size, I will post them shortly. :D

I found this site that has some info. I also read somewhere kittens this young need to be fed every 2 hours, even at night (like a newborn human!).

http://cats.suite101.com/article.cfm/carin...newborn_kittens

Here's how I bottle feed, I generally end up with 2 or 3 litters a year I raise since I'm a sucker..errr..a vet tech. ;)

I use the powdered kitten milk replacement. Once it's mixed up if you keep it in the fridge except when feeding (of course) it'll stay good for 24 hours. So, I mix up a bowl at a time to last throughout the day.

I personally don't use the bottles/nipples myself. I find they are more frustrating than useful, so instead I use syringes. I just go really slow if I'm having to coax the kitten to drink/nurse. Once they catch on they need to suckle the syringe tip, then they advance the milk down really quickly with hardly any help from me. When they are really little 3-6ccs at a time is generally what they'll take. The kittens I'm "bottle feeding" now are around 12 days old and take anywhere from 6-18ccs (mls) at any one feeding.

If they are less than a week old I'll generally get up once or twice in the middle of the night to feed them. But after a week or so old I'll feed them every 2-4 hours (depending on when they wake up whining for food!) during the day and make sure I feed them right before bed and when I wake up, but other than that I don't feed them over night.

Kittens won't start pottying on their own really well until around 3 weeks old or so. Getting the to pee via stimulation is the easiest part and I do it after feeding them. Getting them to poo is harder. I try after every feeding, but they don't always go. If they go more than a day or two without pooing, then I have had to give kittens enemas before (had to do that today actually).

Hmmm, not sure what else... Around 4 weeks old is when they generally start taking to eating wet food (in addition to the kitten milk) and start getting used to going to the litterbox.

If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask.

I can't think of anything on top of what JJ said for the feeding. :thumbsup: We found Tink abandoned when she was about 2 weeks old and bottle fed her...so cute! :luv2: We bought the cans of milk from Petsmart, I don't think it really matters, it's all the same stuff, just different forms. We also didn't use bottles from the store - I actually used smaller plastic bottles I got from work (I worked in an art store at the time) that were used to hold airbrush paints. We'd turn it to the side and the formula would just come out, so Tink would lap it up right off of it. After a while she started biting on the end and we started transitioning her to wet food (with lots of formula mixed in) until we just gave her wet food. We also mixed in dry food later in the same manner so she started to eat that.

I did it every 2-4 hours - we had a feeding area and she would go to it and start sniffing around when she was hungry. I didn't do any overnight feedings, but she was 2 weeks at that point - I would just do it right before bed and then as soon as we woke up. She was excited for that morning feeding!

To help her learn how to use the bathroom in the box, we put Tink in it and used a washcloth (mother cats lick them "down there" until they go) but she would always wriggle away. After about a week of going outside the box, she just walked in one day and started using it and we had no problems after. :lmao: :wha:


You've got a big job on your hands - how are you going to do it when you're at work? Do you have someone else to come care for them?

Crystal, ain't that the truth about having a big job on my hands! Not only do I get to feed them, but I get to litter train them and wean them. Although weaning probably is not that hard. Yes, I do have care for them when I am at work. Mom is retired so she can feed them and even during the night. My aunt also helps since she has had experience nursing newborn puppies. So they are in good hands. But rest assured that when I am home during the week, I will be over there taking care of them and on weekends, I will take care of them as well.

JJ, I too am using syringes. I have some silicone nipples that are pre-punctured and their flow is excellent. I figure at the oldest, they are probably 6 to 7 days now. I am feeding them around 4ml on average. Of course, I am using those cheapo syringes where the rubber plunger tip will eventually stick to the tube. But the nipples fit them just fine and do not pop off. However, I can order a box of 100 6ml disposable syringes from Jefferspet dot com and I may just do that if my aunt cannot come across any from a friend.

Some of the kittens do not immediately want to grab the nipple. But we all take time to make sure the fussy ones get their food. However, they eventually do start to suckle. Some suckle so tightly that if you let go of the syringe, it will not fall out of their mouths. Is that just a trait a specific kitten may have or does that mean they are hungry? But even the ones that do not use so much suction still suckle well and they get their food.

They have not pooed with any stimulation from us but mom DID find a good amount of poo on the towels. So that is a good sign. Any tell-tale signs to watch for if a kitten is constipated and needs either an enema or a soaking of their hindquarters in warm water?

Well, the babies are doing very well. They are crying a lot less than they were 24 hours ago. I am very confident that all 5 will live and grow into beautiful adult cats. They sleep a lot longer so they feel more secure.

Nobody at work has seen any cat hanging around the plant. I figure that if she was trying to get to her babies, she would be around the area constantly waiting until it was safe. But alas, no sign of her. So I truly feel that the babies are orphans. And one thing is for certain. Now they have a great chance to grow old. Had they not been found, I fear they would be dead from starvation and/or the cold. But if I ever do find the mother and can catch it, I will have her spayed. In the meantime, the babies are doing very well. They are more energetic and are wanting to explore when we are holding them and carefully set them down on our chests.

Awesome, glad to hear you have help!

I don't really know the answers to your questions - hopefully JJ will be along soon to answer. It's been years since I bottlefed and I didn't have to do that much with enemas or anything, she was good to go. :rotfl:

Even good syringes the rubber plunger eventually gets too tough to plunge with repeated use. I start out using 6cc syringes when they are under 3 weeks old. My kittens now are 2 weeks old and already drink more than 6cc at once. When they are older than 3 weeks I use 20-60cc syringes. I just use the syringe without a nipple, but a nipple certainly is fine.

As for yuor question about suckling. Some kittens just have a better grasp on it than others. Doesn't mean they are more hungry, just better at it. Out of the three I'm nursing now only one gets a really tight hold on the syringe, the other two get a so-so hold but certainly want just as much milk as their sister!

I don't like them go more than 24-36 hours without pooing. If they go too long you'll notice their tummies are fat and hard vs. just happy fat tummies.

Mom has not seen any poo since thursday morning. Without resorting to an enema, is there any way to coax them to poo? I have heard of placing their hindquarters in warm water. Any other ideas or suggestions? Any type of "kitten laxative" out there I can get that you may recommend? Mom said she is 100% sure one of the babies is pooing somewhat regularly, JJ. However, when using KMR, how often SHOULD a kitten poo? Is 48 hours too long?

I ordered a 100ct box of luer-slip style syringes along with some extra syringe nipples (vs unpunctured bottle nipples) from JeffersPet. The syringes were only 11 dollars for a total cost of 11¢ each. I also figured I may as well get some KMR 2nd step for when they are 4 weeks or so.

And I have some more questions. First off, at what age will I be able to reliably determine their genders? Also, I gave them some bene-bac but it was a thick gel. I will try to soak the tubes in warm water to soften it. But with regards to the bacterial cultures, would a good probiotic plain yogurt do the job? I am thinking something along the lines of these two yogurts...

http://www.stonyfield.com//ourproducts/LowfatYogurt.cfm

http://www.stonyfield.com//ourproducts/WholeMilkYogurt.cfm

I have not seen any evidence that those two yogurts contain enterococcus faecium cultures. Is that culture necessary?

Lastly, would the bacterial cultures increase or decrease the frequency of their pooing?

You can try soaking them in warm water. I definitely wouldn't let them go more than 48 hours without pooing.

Honestly, I don't use bene-bac usually. Just feed them their KMR until old enough to start eating wet food, then move onto Roayal Canin Baby Cat to transistion them to dry food. Nothing wrong with Bene-bac, just not what I use unless needed.

You should be able to tell their sexes now. I can tell generally at birth. With some they might need to be a few days old, but generally, it's pretty easy to tell who has a " : " (boy) and who has an unpside down " ! " girl.

JJ, two quick questions (I will probably edit later) about them needing to poo. Is it possible that the warmth of the heating pad could also make them poo? Mom and I have seen little poo pieces on the towel. Also, how often should they poo? Like every third feeding, etc?

Just like with human babies, you start obsessing over pooping!!! :rotfl:

All silliness aside, I hope they're doing well, Don, and can get things moving.

Well, they are pooing rather well right now. Over the last 24 hours, each kitten has done a #2 so there is one less worry now. :)

Anyway, they are very healthy and active! They are getting used to the silicone nipples very well right now. Even the ones that took the longest to get the nipple inserted in their mouths accept it with much less fuss! They scamper about inside their box rather vigorously. It is so cute watching a ball of kittens tumble about to get the best sleeping position! :lol: They are also growing quite nicely! When I got them Wednesday, if they were laying across my palm from left to right, three of them would fit in my palm. Now...only two will fit! :D

Hehehe, I must admit that those darlings really go through the KMR!! :P I bought the small size can of powder on Wednesday. Now I will need to get another can by tuesday to be safe! This time, I am going to get the large size! And I suspect I will need a third can before the time comes to move to KMR 2nd Step. :D But you know what? It is worth it! I love those little babies. In just over 72 hours, I have gone from scared and concerned to very optimistic! When it looked like these babies were never going to live to open their eyes and see the world, they now will probably grow to old age!

When they get old enough to get their first shots around 8-10 weeks of age, I know I will be quite popular at the clinic when I take the entire litter of five in for their shots. Which brings me to another question! :lol: When you take a litter of 8-10 month old kittens in for shots, do you carry them each in a separate carrier, put 2-3 in one carrier and the rest in another, or do you place all 5 in the same carrier assuming they have the room? My concern is the others getting out when the vet reaches in to grab one! :)

I've always taken kittens to the vet in the same carrier. And as a vet tech I can say most people do the same. We really don't mind. :)

WOW!! Giant Hugs and purrs, never experienced this but have learned quite a lot here. They are very lucky babies to be found by you! Paws crossed Papa.

Yup, every time I've seen litters of kitten at the vet, there's been a pile in one carrier. Soooo cute!! :luv2:

Well, they seem to have started peeing on their own and I think the poo is coming out too. However, I still will probably massage under their tails for a bit longer. JJ, at what point will it no longer be needed to stimulate them to eliminate?

Also, I cannot fathom a guess as to whether or not they got to nurse much off their mother. Therefore, I have no idea how much, if any, colostrum milk they received. I have read that in those cases, vaccinations should be done earlier. SO my question for the day is at what age should I take the kittens in for vaccinations if I am unable to determine if they received any colostrum milk or not? Thanks! :)

Our vaccine protocol at work is if we vaccinate at 6-8 weeks old they'll need 4 rounds of FVRCP since anything under 8 weeks old their bodies/immune systems aren't mature enough for it to really have any lasting effect. Anything after 8 weeks old their mature enoguh to only need 3 rounds of vaccines. So, you can vaccinate at 6 weeks..

The kittens I'm feeding now are probably 2-2.5 weeks older than your's and they really don't need me to potty them anymore. I still try after each feeding until they are 3 weeks old just to make sure they are going enough, but that's for my piece of mind.

JJ, thanks again for all the help. Just send the bill to:

Donald's Mom
Cuyahoga Falls, OH

Anyway, they are peeing really well. So much that they are getting on each other as they climb over the others. :lol: So in the absence of momma cat, mom and I are wiping them with a wet washcloth. I take it just plain water is good enough. Any need for something VERY GENTLE such as dove dishwashing soap HIGHLY DILUTED?

Also, at 5oz weight for the kittens, is this feeding schedule and amount ok for a 10-11 day old kitten?

7am - 7ml
10am - 7ml
1pm - 7ml
4pm - 7ml
7pm - 7ml
11pm - 7ml

That is 42ml per day and that seems to be close in line with 8ml per oz of body weight. Mom thinks they are too full and that they are being overfed. I have concerns that 36ml per day per kitten may be a bit too little. She says they are fighting the nipple. I say that some of them still are not 100% accurate taking the nipple in and thus beginning to suckle. When it is time to feed, I like to let them scamper around on my belly to get them to work up a small appetite.

Oh, yesterday their umbilical cord remnants fell off! :D

Well, the all black kitten, the one I named Shadow, passed away a little bit ago. He was very weak and lethargic plus he would not suckle. Last night, he was a ball of fire. So I got him to the vet. The vet said he was not dehydrated nor did he have aspiration pneumonia. It was just as if he shut down. I guess he probably would not have made it had the mother been able to stay with the litter. But it is just a shock that it happened so quickly. The vet said that his temperature was lower than the rest of the kittens but other than that, he was a strong kitten.

I just hope the others will make it. So far, all seems well with them.

Well, I have a good update. One of the kittens has opened its eyes so I am sure the others will follow soon! Hopefully by Sunday night, all their eyes will be open!!! :luv1:

So sad about the little one. :( You did all you could.

That's exciting about their eyes opening! Can't wait to see pictures. :D

Two more have opened their eyes this morning and the 4th surviving kitten has just began to open its eyes!!! :luv2: So by Wednesday or Thursday, I should have my second update for photos!! :D